06/27/2021 – Pontiac fans look at NASCAR Cup racing in 1990’s with mixed feelings – we had the highs of Rusty Wallace’s 10 victories in 1993, then saw his defection to Ford in 1994 and a downward spiral in Pontiac performance which lasted several years. Following the nadir of 1994 (0 wins for Pontiac), the struggle continued with the occasional victory (Kyle Petty, Ward Burton, Bobby Hamilton) until 1997 when a certain Mr Joe Gibbs switched his Cup team from Chevrolet to Pontiac, which – with the addition of Tony Stewart – set the stage for Pontiac’s final glory years (many victories and 2 Cup Championship courtesy of Joe Gibbs Racing) before Pontiac’s official withdrawal from Cup in 2003.
The person with a front seat to Pontiac’s rise, fall, and rise in Cup during that decade was Brian Hoagland. Brian was Pontiac’s NASCAR PR spokesman from 1991-2000 and witnessed all that and much more. I contacted Brian via his private company’s website (https://www.hoaglandscape.com/) and he was very gracious with his time in answering numerous questions that myself and other Pontiac fans had compiled over the years; in the process he provided a very unique, eye-opening, and personal touch that only someone from the inside could provide.
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[Pontiac Racing] When you started with Pontiac in 1991, how dedicated and engaged was Pontiac to its presence in NASCAR? Within the Pontiac teams was there an equitable distribution of resources?
[Brian] I think one of the reasons I was hired was to enlarge Pontiac’s presence in NASCAR from a public relations and marketing standpoint. Chevrolet and Ford had full-time PR reps, but Pontiac’s really wasn’t as engaged on the circuit as they were. Chevy had Ray Cooper, who was my best friend until he died. Ford had Wayne Estes. Those guys were my mentors and helped me so much. They are like brothers to me. When I came in, Richard Petty was about to announce his farewell tour for the next season and I am sure Pontiac wanted to leverage that relationship. Rusty Wallace was in his prime and performing well and Kyle Petty soon turned the Mello Yello Pontiac into a championship contender.
Pontiac’s ace driver in the early ’90’s was Rusty Wallace, but only for a few more years. After Rusty’s banner year in 1993 – with 10 wins – was there anything more Pontiac could have done to prevent Penske-Wallace from switching to Ford in 1994?
Probably not. Pontiac didn’t have a racing budget that could compete with Ford’s. But looking back, I don’t know if that was the best thing for Rusty. He followed with an eight-win season with Ford, but still didn’t have as many wins, top-fives and top-tens as his last season with Pontiac, when he finished second to Dale Earnhardt for the championship. Rusty never sniffed a championship again and never came close to that kind of ’94 season again with Ford. With Pontiac he was always the flag bearer, with Ford, he was one of several good drivers that shared the limelight. So, I’m not sure, in hindsight, if that was his best move.
1994 and 1995 were lean years for Pontiac, especially 1994. How difficult were those years especially knowing that Rusty was knocking downs wins with Ford? Was Pontiac actively trying to recruit any teams to switch over to Pontiac?
Those were lean years. It was difficult to handle because Wallace was a bonafide championship contender every year with Pontiac. Kyle Petty was on the downside with Felix Sabates. Sabates made some horrible crew chief choices that didn’t pan out at all with Petty. We just didn’t have anyone that could steer the ship.
In a 1995 article with the Virginian-Pilot which documented Ricky Ruddy being courted by Pontiac for 1996, Ricky alluded to several other teams Pontiac was trying to recruit; can you recall who those were?
Rudd was the only one I recall. Of course, we put out feelers out for other teams, but they didn’t go far to my knowledge.
When courting teams to switch manufacturers, what would you say teams were looking for – performance, fiscal support, or engineering support?
All of the above. They wanted to be higher on a manufacturer’s totem pole. But being under the GM umbrella, Pontiac was always going to play second fiddle to Chevy. It was painfully obvious and really frustrating.
Was there a spoken or unspoken pecking order between Chevrolet and Pontiac? Did you feel that Pontiac was treated fairly in-house by GM Motorsports?
There was definitely an unspoken pecking order, but it was plain as day. GM’s engineers were more interested in focusing on drivers that had the best chance to win, like Earnhardt and Jeff Gordon. With Rusty’s departure, it grew even worse.
Did that pecking order carry over to NASCAR? During the days of manufacturers lobbying for more spoiler, less spoiler, etc., was NASCAR equally as responsive and receptive with Pontiac as the other manufacturers?
In the mid-90s when Gary Claudio began to run the racing side at Pontiac, I thought we were treated better. There was a young, new engineer for GM (can’t remember his name) and he spent a lot of time with our teams. I remember Herb Fischel being a little interested in Ward Burton’s win at Rockingham one year, but I always got the feeling he only cared about Chevy.
Were you ever privy to any rumors that Buick or Oldsmobile were considering a return, or perhaps that another manufacturer was considering participating?
Once Buick and Oldsmobile left, it was for good. There were no concrete rumors of a return. It wasn’t going to happen. Before I left in 1999, you heard rumors of Dodge and Toyota gauging their prospective interests in NASCAR.
Was there ever any discussion that any Pontiac model other than the Grand Prix was going to be the NASCAR racecar?
Not to my knowledge.
You obviously worked with some legendary drivers; any favorites, favorite stories?
I was fortunate to work with some great drivers. Richard Petty was no longer competitive but he knew the game and would always consent to an interview after a race or qualifying effort. His quotes were gold with feature stories that were easy to sell to the media. He realized that a PR guy was there for him to make him look good even when times were bad. Then you had guys like Rusty and even Bobby Labonte that were so hot and cold. If their performance wasn’t there they looked at you as a big hassle to deal with and avoided you like the plague. I would get my head bit off all the time just trying to do my job. I mean, I was cursed, called names and just totally disrespected by a few guys. Cooper and Estes dealt with the same thing. That’s why I loved working with Bobby Hamilton and the success he had with “The King” in getting the No. 43 back to Victory Lane. Bobby was the easiest guy in the world to work with and even became a close friend, visiting my house one time with his wife. I remember one time at Michigan when he qualified poorly and I went to get a quote. Obviously, he was disappointed and he said, “What do you want me to say?” That’s the closest he ever came to being rude to me and that wasn’t even close. Bobby Labonte would be ticked off if he finished second! Bobby (Labonte) also could be very kind as could Rusty. But Bobby (Hamilton) was consistent. I knew Bobby could get “The King” back to Victory Lane. It was so satisfying when he did it at Phoenix. That was my best day ever at a track because a personal friend that day was the best in the business. It’s hard to win races. I remember when Pepsi came out with a commemorative set of four bottles for Richard Petty’s accolades. He gave me a set at Talladega one day. I had flown down and on my flight back some broke. I told him at Charlotte in the team’s trailer the next week and he said, “Wait a moment.” He walked to the front of the trailer and came back with four brand new signed bottles. I mean that floored me. He is just a great human being. Perhaps my favorite all-time person in the garage was Petty’s crew chief, Dale Inman. He was so giving of his time and friendly. His hands were so strong. He would always be going around squeezing a ball. You would come up to him and he would get a hold of your arm at a pressure point and squeeze and it would about make you scream. He was so fun to be around. Everybody loved Dale Inman in the garage. I always hung around the 43 trailer because he made sure I had a home there. Robbie Loomis, Hamilton’s crew chief and I were also close. That team just had some fine people in it. Happy people that never bitched like primadonnas.
Did you get to attend many races? Any favorite races and/or racetracks?
I attended more than 300 races and I never want to go to another one! My favorite tracks were Daytona and Talladega – the fastest. I enjoyed Sonoma’s road course just because of the location. My wife and I love San Francisco and we would always eat in great restaurants there or go to the wine country to have fun. San Francisco was an easy town to navigate and so culturally diverse. There were restaurants and bars on all the streets and it made for great day drinking!
When Joe Gibbs Racing switched to Pontiac from Chevrolet it set the stage for Pontiac’s final glory years on the Cup circuit, that had to be considered a major coup; was there a particular story or threshold event or meeting that made this happen?
I wasn’t privy to any meeting or info on that. Obviously, I heard things that it was going to happen but that’s about it.
When Tony Stewart signed with Gibbs, was there an expectation or realization how good he was going to be?
Oh, yes. And that happened a few years before he joined Joe Gibbs. I had heard about Tony being the first driver to win all three major divisions of sprint cars in the same year. Harry Ranier got him to run NASCAR’s Busch Series on a part-time basis, because Stewart was also driving Indy cars at the time. I remember telling everyone he was going to be he next Jeff Gordon and everyone laughed at me. But the most amazing thing I ever saw in my 10 years on the circuit was when Stewart started a Busch Series race at Talladega in 39th. Ranier’s car had no sponsor. It was just a gray Grand Prix with a number. Stewart had never raced there. They started the race and he was second by the second lap. I have never seen any driver do that. I knew right then I was right, he was going to be a superstar. In fact, I became his first PR person. Let’s just say when he started winning for Gibbs there were no longer any people laughing at me. As far as any driver I witnessed, Stewart was the best. Yes, better than Earnhardt. Better than Jimmie Johnson. Why? Because he could drive in any classification of racing, become dominant and win.
After a Pontiac win or pole position, what would that activate/initiate from a PR standpoint?
My job was to transcribe interviews I had with Pontiac’s drivers after each performance. I would print them out at the track’s media center and we handed them out to the sportswriters. I didn’t work with TV as much. Race days were long days. You would get to the track by 7 a.m. to avoid the traffic, wait it out until the race began, talk to your drivers after the race and then type up your quotes. If one of my guys won, I’d be at the track often until 8 or 9 p.m.
In 2000 when Bobby Labonte won the championship, that had to be a tremendously satisfying seeing all the hard work payoff from the down mid-90’s. How much did that energize Pontiac’s on-going participation in NASCAR?
My final season was 1999 with Pontiac. I am sure it was very satisfying. I remember the year before when he finished second in the standings and Pontiac missed out on the manufacturer’s championship by only two points. Pontiac never sniffed that title again.
Is there truly a relation between win on Sunday, sell on Monday?
Yes, I was told that and believe it. NASCAR’s fans were so sponsor loyal. I was never shown statistics, but it was a shared belief in the sport that I’m sure was accurate.
When you left Pontiac for 2000, was there any indication that just 3 years later they would be out of NASCAR?
Not really, but a lot of things were in the works that pointed towards an exit. First, the CEO was terminated. Then Grand Prix’s president, Bill Hughes, exited. The guy in charge of Pontiac’s racing division knew nothing of the sport. He was basically just a fan and didn’t have a clue how things worked. When Pontiac terminated my contract it was a blessing. That man did me the biggest favor of my life! I had been wanted to leave since about 1996 because racing grew so corporate. I had to work through another PR agency in Indianapolis and they were inept. I was making the most money I ever made in my life, but I was burned out. So much travel and the drivers became so uncooperative and unappreciative. For two years I went through a mid-life crisis in my mid-30s! I worked temp jobs and made as little as $8.50 an hour when I used to make six figures. In 2002, I worked one summer at a plant nursery. We did some landscaping jobs on the side and it dawned on me that I could do this. My parents always had the talent, as did their parents. My brother was head of grounds at a country club in Montgomery, Ala. So, I saved up and bought a four-cylinder Toyota Tacoma. I started my business and we did pruning, mulching, landscape design and installation. Then we did hardscapes like patios and walkways. After one year I hired my first employee. A couple of years later I hired my brother to be my foreman. Hoaglandsape is now celebrating its 20th anniversary. We do incredible waterfalls and koi ponds, even sophisticated swimming ponds. I have one that has more than 90 tons of boulders. It looks like the grounds of a resort. Seriously! When I first started in this business I heard several former sportswriters felt sorry for me. They couldn’t understand how I could do manual labor and enjoy life. Hell, it’s my art! At 58, I’m not doing the hard labor now, I run a business that will eclipse $1 million in sales annually in a year or two. Only four percent of small businesses reach that goal. We will get there, too. I get weekends off now and actually have a life. I go to all of Appalachian State’s football games (I am an alumnus) and was even at the 2009 Michigan game when we silenced “The Big House.” I spend more time with my wife and travel all over and make good money. I have a tribe of friends all over the United States. Life is better than ever. I have no regrets. NASCAR was a fun chapter in my life, but never my passion.
A big ‘Thank You’ from Pontiac Racing to Brian for this great interview; personally it took me right back to the 1990’s when cheering for Pontiac could be a roller-coaster ride. Brian has kindly indicated that he has some additional stories to share from his time with Pontiac, so please stay tuned to the blog.
Be sure to check out Brian’s business https://www.hoaglandscape.com/ for any landscaping and pond needs if you’re in the Charlotte, Gastonia, Lake Norman, Lake Wylie, and surrounding areas; be sure to check out Hoaglandscape’s YouTube Channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBb44r4ASxQfX0FdFbJZMgA for great ideas and examples of their work.
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